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speechles
Revered One
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 1398
Location: emerald triangle, california (coastal redwoods)
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 Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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efnet, being efnet, allows some dumb things, like unscanned proxy ridden networks to leaf onto the network, sure. But the majority of competent servers knock these drones down before they even begin to be a problem. This is why you befriend an ircop. Don't you know your police? Vigilante justice only? I'm sure you dial 9-11 or similar whenever 50 guys run into your house or at least it's on your mind. Why isn't the same thing on your mind when 50 drones flood your channel? Now I'm not saying run into #chanfix everyday and cry 'please help me get my channel back' cuz you opped one of them. But if you have some of these people with similar interests as your channel name indicates, residing in your channel (an ircop or two who you give fringe benefits to), this problem eventually takes care of itself. That's all i'm saying... I personally find running scripts of this sort as a drain on resources and the wrong person playing god. God should be played by the network/ircops, not by mere users/bots...
Migrating involves collaboration. Channel heads should talk to each other to discuss the impact these drone/spam bots have on their channel. Eventually migration will be mentioned and a date can be set, and bots can be set up to keep topics with new server infos/channels, and then the migration on the date you pick happens automatically without user intervention. This would be easily scriptable....in fact, wait, it already was back when we migrated 2 dozen channels from newnet all at the same instant..Even had a relay.tcl within the bots still on the old network so any stragglers who chose to stay behind could still chat with us and us with them (albeit without the dcc features of chat/get/send and the other networks nicklist to see). |
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strikelight
Owner
Joined: 07 Oct 2002
Posts: 708
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| speechles wrote: | efnet, being efnet, allows some dumb things, like unscanned proxy ridden networks to leaf onto the network, sure. But the majority of competent servers knock these drones down before they even begin to be a problem. This is why you befriend an ircop. Don't you know your police? Vigilante justice only? I'm sure you dial 9-11 or similar whenever 50 guys run into your house or at least it's on your mind. Why isn't the same thing on your mind when 50 drones flood your channel?
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Actually, I was an Oper on EFNet back when qeast.net was still around. Flood-nets usually cross over onto multiple servers, meaning you have to find an Oper on each server to be active all at the same time, which is highly unlikely. Killing off a flood-bot from a single server just results in the drone connecting to another server. Having a way to maintain and protect your channel isn't vigilante justice. It's more like equipping your home with a locked doors and windows, a security alarm, a guard dog, etc..
| speechles wrote: |
I personally find running scripts of this sort as a drain on resources and the wrong person playing god. God should be played by the network/ircops, not by mere users/bots...
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Sure, in an ideal world, the networks would capture everything prior to an abusive client connecting, however, just as such a script would drain resources on your shells, it drains resources on a machine running the irc server.
| speechles wrote: |
Migrating involves collaboration. Channel heads should talk to each other to discuss the impact these drone/spam bots have on their channel. Eventually migration will be mentioned and a date can be set, and bots can be set up to keep topics with new server infos/channels, and then the migration on the date you pick happens automatically without user intervention. This would be easily scriptable....in fact, wait, it already was back when we migrated 2 dozen channels from newnet all at the same instant..Even had a relay.tcl within the bots still on the old network to any stragglers who chose to stay behind could still chat with us (albeit without the dcc features of chat/get/send). |
This type of collaboration sounds like it is between similar minded channels (do I sense the "w to the z" word involved? hrm?). Collaborating such a migration between a broad spectrum of channels involving different subjects of socializing is highly unlikely to work, given that not everyone knows everyone, and people are by nature are more likely to brush strangers off. Also where this fails is migrating to another known network, where the channels that are moving are already taken. Sure you could move to an obscure network, but then you lose the ability to make your channel available to a larger audience such as those that use the popular networks. |
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speechles
Revered One
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 1398
Location: emerald triangle, california (coastal redwoods)
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| strikelight wrote: | | Actually, I was an Oper on EFNet back when qeast.net was still around. Flood-nets usually cross over onto multiple servers, meaning you have to find an Oper on each server to be active all at the same time, which is highly unlikely. |
Agreed, finding an global ircop (and even getting a reply) is like finding the proverbial needle in a haystack. You would just need an ircop who happens to reside on the same server as the offender, assuming they all use this server to avoid proxy kills on all the others. | strikelight wrote: | | Killing off a flood-bot from a single server just results in the drone connecting to another server. Having a way to maintain and protect your channel isn't vigilante justice. It's more like equipping your home with a locked doors and windows, a security alarm, a guard dog, etc.. |
True, they are like fleas. They just hop onto another dog and infest it. Perhaps using the +s or +p flags to conceal your channel from the general public can be helpful. Then you don't need to have 14 shotguns near your front door, and 2 pitbulls inside (you are killing innocent people as well as offenders, this will decimate your channel eventually). If they can't see your house numbers from the street, they can only find you by chance...
| strikelight wrote: |
Sure, in an ideal world, the networks would capture everything prior to an abusive client connecting, however, just as such a script would drain resources on your shells, it drains resources on a machine running the irc server. |
It is time to question why this isn't provided (shared load proxy checks). I'm quite aware irc servers do not generate revenue, yet are a constant drain, supported by archaic institutions and paid for in most part by private parties or government funding. This is where you notice the privately funded servers rising above and providing this level of service. The publicly funded are sorely lacking and I can only assume laziness is the reason, sadly.
| strikelight wrote: | | This type of collaboration sounds like it is between similar minded channels (do I sense the "w to the z" word involved? hrm?). Collaborating such a migration between a broad spectrum of channels involving different subjects of socializing is highly unlikely to work, given that not everyone knows everyone, and people are by nature are more likely to brush strangers off. Also where this fails is migrating to another known network, where the channels that are moving are already taken. Sure you could move to an obscure network, but then you lose the ability to make your channel available to a larger audience such as those that use the popular networks. |
Hmm.. without revealing what those channels were, a few sure were, but some were not as well. The migration will adress expired channels, where the oldname is taken by another group already existing on the network. This is where you form a committee of those who will oversee the move, set up the scripts, etc.. But for the vast majority of arrogant channel heads collaboration is not in their best interest, they are in direct competition with each other. This is not right minded thinking, I prefer to think of the network as a family. And each channel brothers and sisters to their mother network. |
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DragnLord
Owner
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 711
Location: C'ville, Virginia, USA
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: |
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An open port does not mean that it is a forwarding (relay) port.
Locating a forwarding port means that you have to send a packet to the port for a different destination and see if it returns data from the different destination.
This process is very resource heavy with eggdrop, eggdrop is not designed to handle this well. Every IP address has the possibility of 65536 ports. If you can get eggdrop to scan 1000 ports in a single second, it will take over a minute (roughly 65.5 seconds) to scan through a single IP. If 60 users join the channel at the same time, it will take over an hour to scan through the IPs.
Another factor you have to consider: most IRC shell companies do not allow port scanning from accounts that do not run IRCds. Using an eggdrop in this fashion, you may very well simply end up having your shell account terminated. |
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TCL_no_TK
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Joined: 25 Aug 2006
Posts: 509
Location: England, Yorkshire
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